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MySpace: The Tenebrous Liar

Steve Gullick is perhaps best known for his iconic photographs of Nirvana, Lou Reed, Richard Hawley and pretty much anyone else of note in that last twenty years of music. That love of music has spilled into writing and performing, most recently as The Tenebrous Liar. On the release day of their new album Jackknifed and Slaughtered, Chris Moffatt talked to the band pre-gig to get an insight into their fiercely creative world.

Steve, how did you get started in music photography?
[Steve] There was a darkroom at my school. I got into going in there every lunchtime and doing photography. I’ve always loved music, and I’ve never really photographed anything else. Although I might start doing weddings, the way things are going.

You grew up in Coventry. It’s quite a bleak place – it doesn’t strike me as the kind of place that would inspire you get creative?

[Steve] It’s all you know when you’re a kid. There weren’t a lot of live music opportunities; there weren’t great record shops or anything.

It was mostly based around the club scene when I was living there.

[Steve] It’s getting better. There’s a fella called Rich Guy who set up a venue called Taylor John’s House. He’s got a whole art scene going in Coventry. It’s a totally different city now; it’s not as rough as it was.

It’s nice to hear live music is growing again there.

[Steve] I think it’s verging on thriving.

[Brendan] Biggest crowd we ever had, I think.

How did the move from photography into music come about?

[Steve] I think the two are linked – the music and the photography.

There’s a rawness to them both.

[Steve] Yeah… I’ve never really thought about the rawness. I got depressed and started writing songs. I’ve never written. I always fancied it but when I was a kid I had a camera, and I couldn’t afford to buy a musical instrument as well. But when I got a bit more money I bought a cheap Strat copy, and a tiny little amp, and fucked about making what could best be described as “avant-garde noise”.

I started thinking, I’ve got loads of songs, but I can’t play the guitar, so I tried to teach myself to play. I made really rudimentary songs – I did three albums worth of stuff like that over quite a short period of time. With the weird shit I was doing a few years earlier, one of the people I was playing it to was James Johnston out of Gallon Drunk. He really liked it, and said if I ever wanted any help making music, to give him a call.

So it’s several years on, I’m writing these songs and at the same time running Careless Talk… magazine. One of the things we wanted to do with that magazine was have a label as well. The idea was to do limited edition CDRs. I wanted to do an album with James Johnston, just him on his own. We started doing these songs together, and that became a band called Bender.

How did that turn into the current incarnation, Tenebrous Liar?
[Steve] After doing stuff with Bender, I wanted to do similar things to what I’d done before on my own. I did that and released it myself, but I wanted a band to play it with live. I started playing with other people. It was always improvised. We never rehearsed; it was like “Do you fancy coming and playing on Friday night?” It would always be a different group of people. I’d sing the song, and they’d just play around with it, without knowing what was coming next. It was good fun.

I’ve never claimed to be a competent musician, but as I started to make some noises that were pleasant… rock songs started to happen, and I really liked that I was able to do it. The band has evolved to the point it’s at now, a pretty tight rock band. The lyrical content of the songs is pretty bleak, but on this new record we’ve tried to make the music sound a bit more jolly.

Making pop music is experimental. What I started off doing would have been considered experimental music, but this is more experimental.

[Brendan] The band was introduced to me as Ed Harcourt’s side project. It was more like a collective at that time. I play guitar, sing and songwrite, and I was playing a gig when I heard these guys. I really liked what they were doing, so I came down and saw them again at the Windmill in Brixton. Steve organised a photographic exhibition which took place in LA, London and Coventry. My band came down to play support to Steve’s at the exhibition, and it went really well. I said “Can I buy a picture off you?” and he said “I tell you what, you can have it for free if you help out on the drums.” Steve wanted me in the band, and we worked well together, but we weren’t really sure what I should do. By this point Ed Harcourt wasn’t playing in his band so much, so I came in… Steve liked the idea of having something who could play a bit of everything. I started playing bass, the shows went well and that was it.

Brendan, was it nerve-wracking for you working with Steve for the first time – knowing that he’s such a famous name in the music world?

[Brendan] I didn’t notice when I was playing music with him. It was more when he invited me to his house, and you realise that a lot of his friends are people who you know about through magazines. Like earlier on today, when he got a text and said “I’ve just got a joke off Richard Hawley.” I never think about that when I’m talking to him.

For me the ice breaker was the Nick Cave shows, because I’ve been a fan of him for a long time. That was pretty intense, but once I’d dealt with that, everything else was fairly easy.

What’s Nick Cave like as a person?

[Brendan] He’s a nice guy. Very on the money, upfront. It’s a very well oiled machine. It was great… Very hard work, but the most enjoyable experience. Amazing.

It’s interesting that your bass sound was only added to the group later; it seems like an integral part of the sound.

[Brendan] They’d never had a bass player before. Tony recorded most of the bass parts on The Last Stand because I was on holiday, and they weren’t sure what part I was going to play in the group. The songs are much more exciting for me to play now. I had to work my way in to the group – Steve was the only person who knew me in the band and could vouch for me, but I had to keep my head down and work away.

The best time I’ve ever had in a band was last year. We were liberated as a band. We had a new group of people, we’d done the gigs supporting Nick Cave, so we had that on our musical CV. Steve said to me “Just go for it”. So Tom and I just worked together closer on the rhythm parts. Tony was just making more and more noise… it was a good time.

Which musicians influence the songwriting?

[Steve] I listen to… some things you’d expect and some you wouldn’t expect. The Stooges, Velvet Underground, Smog, Cat Power, Big Star, Nirvana, Dinosaur Jr. I listen to Queen. On the next record there’s a song where I want to have a Queen-style vocal harmony going on.

Do you write the songs, or it is a shared process with the other band members?
[Steve] With most of the songs I’ve got a rough idea of the melody and the vocals, and then I take it to them. The songs wouldn’t sound anything like they do now if it wasn’t for the band. We write as a band, but the very basic, two dimension core is down to me.

Steve, you’ve talked before about how horrible it would be to become famous – to have to do interviews all day and live that lifestyle. If this band took off, what would you do?

[Steve] I’d probably quit. I’m enjoying this interview now, and I don’t have to do this very often. But doing this five times a day, and often with morons? I just wouldn’t do it. I think most people like to talk about themselves, and like to play their music. They’re proud of what they do, otherwise they wouldn’t do it. Doing it now and again is fine, but when they get into that trap of “got to go to this country, got to go to that country”…. then I’d probably stop doing it.

[Brendan] Steve doesn’t like to tow the line too much.

I was talking to another musician recently who seemed genuinely frightened of what the mainstream media can do to creative people.

[Steve] That idea features in a few of our songs. I think it’s appalling.

That’s interesting, coming from the point of view of a successful photographer, who’s been quite a big part of that world.

[Steve] What I was trying to do as a photographer was try and take some of the pain out of the process, by making it fun and turning a chore into a laugh.

What do you want people to get out of your music?

[Steve] It’s nice to be liked! But people’s reaction doesn’t bother me. I don’t care if we never play another gig.

[Brendan] I think we’ve got a lot of different temperaments in the band. I like doing the gigs, but Steve and Tom prefer the studio. Doing these gigs, getting to bed at midnight, getting up at eight for work, it’s like being in the army. But I enjoy it. Steve prefers one to one chats – he sometimes finds the gigs a bit overwhelming. He’s not the biggest fan of doing gigs, whereas I think it’s really important. The band wouldn’t have existed as it does if we hadn’t done the shows. Since the last album we’ve gone from a six piece to a four piece, so I think the shows were essential. Whereas Steve would probably be happy just rehearsing…

[Steve] I love playing the songs, but I don’t care where we play them.

[Brendan] He might not want to be at the gigs, but once he’s there he’s happy to do it.

[Steve] I fucking love it! It’s good when people like what you’re doing.

[Brendan] At Coventry, we didn’t play very well, but the crowd loved it. The gigs help us improve as a band.

[Steve] It helps because people are looking at you, and if you go wrong it makes you look like a twat, but in rehearsal it doesn’t matter. So in that respect playing gigs makes you a better musician.

[Brendan] You earn your stripes.

For me, part of the reason to come to a gig is to see the mistakes, to see that the band are human and real. It’s not going to sound exactly like it does on the album, but that doesn’t matter.

[Tony] If I enjoy playing something, I want to take it to other people and see what they think. I really enjoy that, like, “here’s what we’ve done, what do you think?”
[Brendan] That’s the peacock in you.

[Tony] To me that’s what music’s about – communication.

[Steve] No…. it’s purely exorcism.

[Tony] Do you get more of a buzz out of playing live or rehearsing?

[Steve] Rehearsing. I like playing live but… The best feeling during a gig is when people aren’t talking during the quiet bits.

[Brendan] When we played Belgium, Istanbul, France, people didn’t talk a lot at the gigs.
[Tony] People on the continent have much more respect for musicians.

[Brendan] When we were playing support slots with Soulsavers, the crowd were very focused. They’d treat you with the same respect as anyone. In England if you’ve got a big headline band and a support band that aren’t known, people just don’t care.

[Steve] The Soulsavers audiences were the best.

What’s it like playing on the same bill as Nick Cave. Frightening?

[Steve] In the early Bender gigs I was shit scared of singing in front of people, but I’ve got used to it. So now any size gig is fine.

[Brendan] We played to fifty people in the Macbeth in Hoxton, then other gigs we’ve played to four or five thousand people.

[Tony] I enjoy playing to six people, and I enjoy playing to five thousand, when there’s a reaction. In both situations you get a reaction. As long as they’re getting it, that gives you the buzz.

You’re doing some more UK dates in a couple of months?

[Steve] We’re doing five or six dates, and then we’re starting work on a new album. We’ll probably play the new stuff on the tour. That’s another advantage of being unsuccessful. You can play what you want, when you want, and that’s why I’m keen to keep it on a sensible level. We can go on tour in March and play a completely new set of songs, and no-one’ll give a fuck.

[Brendan] We should anyway.
[Steve] This gig today will probably be it for this album.

[Brendan] And today’s the day the album’s released! I think what Steve wants to do is make quite a lot of records. It’s not like we’re going to from Bulgarian folk music to Noseflute Reggae… it’s not that music of a jump really.
[Steve] I like the idea of making something totally different. Or recording the same songs with totally different people – making three versions of the album. It would be a very expensive thing to do, and totally unmarketable… you do have to be considerate to the people who’ve invested money in you. We’re on a small label and they’ve invested money in promoting us, which I’m really appreciative of. I’ll tow the line a bit. I remember when the Killers headlined the Glastonbury festival, and they weren’t allowed to play any new material. If someone tried to tell me what songs to play…

So you’re signed to an indie label – do they give you free reign as far as your music’s concerned?

[Steve] That’s an interesting question. Why would anybody sign a band, then try to tell them what to do? If you don’t want what they’re doing, find someone else.
[Brendan] I’ve been in bands before where the label’s tried to steer us on artwork, or push us in a certain PR direction. We’re quite fortunate in that we don’t need any help with artwork because Steve’s had that down since he started this thing. We don’t need a lot of guiding.

It sounds like you’ve got a good relationship with them?

[Brendan] We have – it’s more like friendly advice, an outsider saying “Why don’t you try this?”

That’s a much better situation than a lot of bands have to put up with.

[Steve] True. But they shouldn’t have to. Mind you, a lot of bands have got no visual idea. A lot of bands have got no musical idea…

The visual aspect of the band must be important to you. Does that extend to how you look and act on stage, or is it limited to the photography such as the album covers?

[Steve] We banned Tony from dancing on stage.

[Brendan] I only got to be in the band because Steve thought I looked right.
[Steve] That was my reasoning for Tony as well. I saw him in the street and he looked right.
[Brendan] I’m not really a bass player. I’ve learnt the bass since I’ve been in this band. (To Steve) You’re like Louis Walsh!

That sounds a bit like Franz Ferdinand. They couldn’t play their instruments when they started.
[Steve] I don’t mind that, I like that. We’re not musos. Tom’s a really proficient musician.
[Brendan] Tom’s a professional. I’m not saying we aren’t, we’ve just got a different view.

You’ve got a pretty high work rate.

[Brendan] The band only formed in its current line up in February, and we had an album out by June. Within twelve months we were supporting Bonny Prince Billy and Nick Cave. For any band, within a year, that’s pretty amazing.

And where do you see the band going in future?

[Brendan] I think we’ll focus on albums, and getting shows with good people. Whatever level we get to, we’re never going to start kissing too much ass. The music industry’s so fucked, I couldn’t tell you where any band is going really. No-one buys albums any more, Radiohead are giving away their albums for free…

Because they can afford to do it.

[Brendan] Exactly. We’re in a better position than a lot of new bands, because of Steve. He’s a link with days of old – a time when people still did buy records. Our audiences range from people in their mid-20s to 50’s. They’re of an age where they’ll still buy records.

For a new band, it’s very easy to make a decent sounding record at home now, and upload it to MySpace for the world to hear, but you’re not likely to make any money from it without the traditional support structure there that bands used to have. Do you think it’s possible to make a living out of music any more?

[Brendan] No, I don’t think you can. The days of labels signing loads of bands and throwing money at people is over. People in bands now have to keep it quite D.I.Y.
I think Steve’s being very brave with his music. He’s making records and he’s proving himself. He’s not doing it for financial reasons. We’ve got a good network of people involved in the band. We’re all very different people, but it works.

With that, the band are off into the chilly North London night, later taking to the stage to blast out a set combining the dark, brooding miasma of Joy Division with the sardonic anger of the Velvets. Disorientating, shimmering and majestic, title track Jackknifed and Slaughtered is like walking the alleyways of Venice at midnight. No Guiding Light hurts in my stomach. Let Freedom Reign is like punching concrete and hitting the steel frame within. They’re right – this stuff works.

By Chris Moffatt